NNCC.in INDRP case decision has been published: 4L.in domain investors beware!

kriss05

Well-Known Member
OK, nncc.in indrp case is on the registry website now.

What can I say. WOW. The case is a bit complicated, but the decision ruled by V. Shrivastav is incredibly poor. Just look at V. Shrivastav's ruling:

"The contention of the respondents is that the complainants have no presence in India and are only active in United States of America bears no fruit as there is nothing in Rule 4, 6 & 7 of INDRP which mandates that a person is required to have localized trademark for claiming the benefit under Rule 4 (i). All that the rule says is that a person is required to either have a pre existing domain name or a trademark similar to a disputed domain name. The said rule does not, as stated above, put any rider or a provisio vis-à-vis having a trademark registered with local trade marks authority."

So, now if I just have a shitty TM registered somewhere in USA/Zimbabwe/whatever, I can claim matching .in domain, and the INDRP arbitrators will give it to me? What a BS. Someone please demand V. Shrivastav to at least read previous INDRP case decisions, for example, case of chiesi.in:

"The disputed domain name <chiesi.in> is an intellectual property in India and it is established that this kind of intellectual property is territorial in nature. It is common knowledge that a single domain name may be registered in different countries by different persons, each distinguished by appropriate country codes such as .in, .us, .ca etc.

5.3 Therefore, Complainant has to plead and establish that:

(a) Complainant is the proprietor of a trade mark or a domain name; he is using his trade mark or domain name in India and the disputed domain name violates his proprietary rights in India; or

(b) Complainant has proprietary rights in a trade mark or a domain name in a country other than India, such trade mark or domain name has gained enormous reputation in that country, such reputation spreads into India and the trade mark or domain name is well known in India, and the disputed domain name violates his well known reputation in India and its proprietary rights in his trade mark or domain name."

It is evident that the complainant has no active presence in India, neither it is well-known in India. Actually, NNCC is not known in India at all! Alexa shows 100% of traffic to nncc-exam.org comes from US. Also, the complainant's claim that Google shows links to the complainant alone when searching for "NNCC" is simply a lie! I spent just few minutes to get it. Just google "NNCC",an you will see many other entities named NNCC. On the first page of Google results you will see the link to - WOW! - NNCC - National Nursing Centers Consortium which runs nncc.us website. So it means that the arbitrator not just ignored evident lie of the complainant, but also ignored the fact the "NNCC" is also being used by another entity in the USA nursing industry. WTF, what kind of common law rights/trans-border reputation can the complainant claim, if even in the USA, they don't have exclusive rights in "NNCC" acronym even in their nursing business?!

Regarding to the trans-border reputation. If the complainant has no established business in India and people in India are not aware of its existence, what kind of trans-border reputation can the complainant claim? The respondent wrote clearly: the complainant failed to show any proof that it has active presence/established business in India in order to claim common law rights/transborder reputation benefits. I also refer to the above citation from chiesi.in case. But the arbitrator completely ignored this.

Thus, the complainant has no registered TM in India or international TM, no established business/active presence in India, is not known in India at all, has no exclusive rights in "NNCC" acronym even in its own business niche in the USA, and as such has no common law rights/transborder reputation spreading into India, and also directly lied regarding its exclusivity in Google search results. How the arbitrator V. Shrivastav can rule in favor of the complainant under such circumstances? IMHO, it is clearly a reason to sue the complainant/the arbitrator in court, like Nat Cohen did in case of fls.in/fls.co.in domains (remember, he sued INDRP arbitrators as well).

Back to .in domaining. I would say: LLLL.in investors, beware! Any owner of a shitty TM registered worldwide can now try to steal your 4L.in domain via INDRP, and there are arbitrators who will rule in their favor. You will have the only option: to sue them in courts.
 
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kriss05

Well-Known Member
I went through the published case. In my opinion, below is evidence of false claims made by the complainant that the INDRP arbitrator V. Shrivastav didn't even bother to deal with:

1. The complainant's Annual report. It can be downloaded from the complainant's website indeed. It clearly says that the complainant doesn't have ANY business in India:

annual-report.jpg

WTF, only 29 certified nurses outside USA in 2015 and no one in India? Is this enough for the complainant to claim that NNCC TM is well known mark which benefits from trans-border reputation? What a BS.

2. Google search results. The complainant claims: "...the mark "NNCC" is a well known mark and even a simple Google Search for NNCC generates result for the Complainant alone thus its mark NNCC has acquired secondary significance...that any use of the acronym essentially relates to the Complainant only".

google.jpg

Look at the first page of Google search results returned for NNCC acronym. The Complainant simply lies that Google generates exclusive results for the Complainant only, and the arbitrator is OK with this. More important, even this simple Google search shows that there is another entity in the USA named NNCC - National Nursing Centers Consortium - which is in nursing industry and operates website NNCC.US. Thus, no exclusive rights for the complainant to "NNCC" acronym even in the USA, even in its business niche, "NNCC" is clearly associated not only with the Complainant as the Complainant states. But the arbitrator is fine with this false claim too.

But, in fact, the complainant didn't have to make the above false claims in the complaint, as the arbitrator even didn't bother to consider that the Complainant must show proof for its common law rights/trans-border reputation spreading into India, if the complainant doesn't have registered TM/established business/active presence in India. I'm not a lawyer, but I know that this has to be done. We clearly need competent INDRP arbitrators.

Now take a look at the complainant. It is a small company with less than 10 employees with a single office located somewhere in NJ which has a tiny NNCC trademark with no exclusive rights even with in its own nursing industry in the USA. And INDRP arbitrator grants NNCC.IN domain just because some tiny company with a shitty TM from NJ countryside wants it!

Well, .in domains became less safe from now. Now it gets even easier to steal generic acronym .in domain via INDRP process, unless the domain owners fight back in court.
 
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domainpundit

Active Member
Country flag
I went through the published case. In my opinion, below is evidence of false claims made by the complainant that the INDRP arbitrator V. Shrivastav didn't even bother to deal with:

1. The complainant's Annual report. It can be downloaded from the complainant's website indeed. It clearly says that the complainant doesn't have ANY business in India:

View attachment 408

WTF, only 29 certified nurses outside USA in 2015 and no one in India? Is this enough for the complainant to claim that NNCC TM is well known mark which benefits from trans-border reputation? What a BS.

2. Google search results. The complainant claims: "...the mark "NNCC" is a well known mark and even a simple Google Search for NNCC generates result for the Complainant alone thus its mark NNCC has acquired secondary significance...that any use of the acronym essentially relates to the Complainant only".

View attachment 409

Look at the first page of Google search results returned for NNCC acronym. The Complainant simply lies that Google generates exclusive results for the Complainant only, and the arbitrator is OK with this. More important, even this simple Google search shows that there is another entity in the USA named NNCC - National Nursing Centers Consortium - which is in nursing industry and operates website NNCC.US. Thus, no exclusive rights for the complainant to "NNCC" acronym even in the USA, even in its business niche, "NNCC" is clearly associated not only with the Complainant as the Complainant states. But the arbitrator is fine with this false claim too.

But, in fact, the complainant didn't have to make the above false claims in the complaint, as the arbitrator even didn't bother to consider that the Complainant must show proof for its common law rights/trans-border reputation spreading into India, if the complainant doesn't have registered TM/established business/active presence in India. I'm not a lawyer, but I know that this has to be done. We clearly need competent INDRP arbitrators.

Now take a look at the complainant. It is a small company with less than 10 employees with a single office located somewhere in NJ which has a tiny NNCC trademark with no exclusive rights even with in its own nursing industry in the USA. And INDRP arbitrator grants NNCC.IN domain just because some tiny company with a shitty TM from NJ countryside wants it!

Well, .in domains became less safe from now. Now it gets even easier to steal generic acronym .in domain via INDRP process, unless the domain owners fight back in court.
Honorable arbitrator also made loads of technical errors.. given such a poor decision , I am so sorry for NIXI to have such an arbitrator who doesnt know the basic knowledge of trade mark laws of India.. Also ignored the rulings given by honorable high court judges delivered in the case of century21 domain name despite of the same is submitted by respondent , totally ignored to consider in the decision itself. So honoroable arbitraotr doesnt have any respects towards Indian courts and Indian arbitration law? INDRP policy will give high level instructions and governed by Indian IP laws. So called honorable senior arbitrator even unaware of the fundamentals of Indian trademark law????..this is such a wrong precedent set in this case, so no Indian business will be secure to use .IN name ? if anyone having just a mere trade mark any where in the world can come and claim a domain name of their choice.. perhaps some one can even log an INDRP against "registry" website also tomorrow. Even can snatch away the names like movies, cinema, business, insurance..etc generic names.. Indeed its a black day of .IN history
 
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kriss05

Well-Known Member
Also ignored the rulings given by honorable high court judges delivered in the case of century21 domain name despite of the same is submitted by respondent , totally ignored to consider in the decision itself.
WOW. Very good point. Just take a look at the judge's judgement from the above mentioned case:

"It is also not the case of plaintiff that plaintiff has any business or presence in India. The plaintiff’s name therefore would not be known to the customers in India who had an intention to deal in real estate. The plaintiff has not placed on record any document to show that its reputation has travelled to India in any manner. Merely because a company is having presence in many countries in the business of reality does not mean that the company’s reputation has travelled to every single country on earth. Reputation and goodwill of a company are intangible assets and these intangible assets are to be shown to exist. Intangible assets in India are to be proved by way of evidence. There can be no presumption in favour of a corporation of intangible assets in India merely because the company has a reputation and goodwill somewhere else.

...Except making an application for registration of trademark and keeping trademark registered so as to block the trademark, the plaintiff had done no work in India. locking of trademark and blocking of trade name is not looked upon kindly by the Courts. It has become a practice to block important domain names, important trade names so that others cannot use it despite the fact that the person himself may not it just to sell it in future."

So "honorable" V. Shrivastav is not only unaware of previous INDRP rulings, but he blatantly ignored the above court case judgement submitted by the respondent. And he decided not to mention the above court case when preparing his ruling, while mentioning numerous court cases submitted by the complainant. IMHO, this arbitrator is not just incompetent, but he is also biased, obviously. More and more reasons that this arbitrator should be ashamed or, better, sued in court along with the complainant.
 

wot

Well-Known Member
Country flag
Or maybe V. Shrivastav is simply just another one of those inept corrupt individuals that have long been associated wth some very strange decisions related to the .in namespace.
 

kriss05

Well-Known Member
It won't be surprise if he is. Maybe now it is time to buy bunch of crappy TMs for premium acronyms anywhere in the world that were registered before the matching .in domains were, then fill INDRP cases for those .in acronym domains and ask NIXI to appoint V. Shrivastav as arbitrator.
 
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domaining123

Active Member
This decision is so disappointing... You submitted very solid facts that have just been ignored by the arbitrator. This is maybe the blackest day of my domainer life.
I'm weighting pros and cons, and considering to leave .in for re-investing in a safer extension, that is domainer friendly.

When I see how easy it is to steal the domain of someone, I really consider .in as a risky investment.

Domainers are a vital actor in the ecosystem of an extension, especially for small one like .in. Yes, .in is a small (but growing) ccTLD, compared to .de, .co.uk, .cn. Registry should really look at UDRP policy, and change the INDRP process, or domainers will just leave .in. And this will produce the biggest drop of all time.

I'm sad for my preferred ccTLD...
 

Ace

Well-Known Member
Most of the .in names that get INDRP are blatant TM violations. This name was not even close. It maybe a TM in US, but the TM in US was so so weak that they could not even secure any of the extensions like NNCC.COM, .org., .us etc. That's the biggest RED FLAG for any arbitrator.

I'm not sure what the registry is trying to portray here by advocating this decision. If this decision is setting a precedent, than I believe that they are disenfranchising their largest group of customer. Its a lose-lose situation. A simple modification of INDRP on the lines of UDRP, can transform the registry and customers to a win-win situation.
 

domainpundit

Active Member
Country flag
Surely such actions will hit .IN registry and they have to pay heavy price for the same..........
this is not the first such wrong decision and many will follow in future.. a complete reform is required.. I am serious about promoting .IN to next level , many other domainers are working day and night to promote .IN . Domainers are quite key for any extension to succeed... otherwise domainers start promoting loads of new GTLDs available .. many registries of these GTLDs want the domainers to step-in and promote and they are ready to give lots of perks in return .. In registry has not given anything for domainers in last 11 years time rather troubling domaining community all the time perhaps they have not realised they are troubling domaing community or may be they totally unaware the importance of good followers who put enoromous amounts to promote .IN .. if they really want to take .IN to next level certainly need the reforms .

Please reform INDRP , its so biased to the complainant and it cant protect genuine INDIAN Business interests either. Many of the arbitrators are totally incompetent or compromising for unknown reasons.
 
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kriss05

Well-Known Member
The best way to make people hear you is to speak to them the language they understand. I wish each arbitrator who judged as V. Shrivastav did in NNCC.IN case is sued in court, as it is only way to make them liable atm. INDRP system should be reformed no doubt, most scandalous INDRP arbitrators should be dismissed, and the remaining ones should be trained how to properly handle over INDRP disputes. NNCC.IN case was a nightmare, I'm going to drop almost all my 4L.in domains and mostly switch to safer extensions until this mess is resolved somehow.
 
(purely a personal opinion in this post- no need to react whoever hurt with this post but this is a fact, we are all responsible for all this mess up of INDRP)

I am writing this post after my detail meeting with InderPaul and Samit Madan (Namepros) in Mumbai today, I am really hurt to know that lot of our forum members are facing hardship due to INDRP decisions and that is why I am writing this ....a bit long but needed:

I am seriously behind the .In registry since long for reforms and we are the only registrar who send them emails regularly for these cause, even today I have a long meeting (1.30PM-4.30PM) with InderPaul and Samit Madan (Namepros) in Mumbai and major part of discussion was INDRP only and how to protect domain names from these kind of cases. we are also starting TM protection services for your prime names from today itself , you can PM us if you want to TM your prime names.

But seriously saying .IN registry is not taking any issue seriously and I am as a part of registry (as registrar and technical committee member) I am taking risk by saying these words against registry although my business is depend on them but am doing it ? (I am sure some members of this forum will try to take advantage by sending this to registry). We have taken this issue with every CEO and even copy of this thread as well as other threads are sent them regularly ...Now hope .IN registry officials will see my this reaction on public forum.....

I see reason for this inactivity on part of registry may be because our own peoples and some members of this forum goes and meet the registry officials for their personal gains (to get the sponsorship for their program or to get favor to appoint their domainer friends as arbitrators or showing themselves as chairman of some fake organizations ) in this process they never discuss about betterment of .IN registry but they simply talk against some of our own members OR domainers file complaint of false whois / list of domain name holdings of other domainers just because they miss the domain names OR giving details about our own members that so and so person is active on secret whatsapp group, showing registry officials the content of whatsapp chat among group for selling and purchasing of the domain names (although I am not the member of any such group but I have copy of all chats , in which they try to involve a two small time new registrars from India also ...got from registry officials) OR which registrar is sending them list of domain names for sale on regular basis OR which registrar is planning to file case against registry OR forwarding internal emails sent to them by registrars for drop catch .....Unfortunately Registry get all these feedback from our own members on regular basis but not a single feedback on betterment of registry , whenever I get above details from registry I really think that this will not take us ahead and whatever efforts we few peoples are doing, will go in drain? We are internally fighting with our own members ....That is where registry understands that these peoples are not working collectively and we are not on one platform and till we are not coming on one platform and press for reforms then reforms are surely a difficult thing to come. There are lot of ways to press for reforms but for this, First we need to come on one platform. No need to react negatively to this post but we really need is a positive and constructive approach and ideas to tackle the situation which is getting worse day by day. This post is not given to attract sharp reactions and start fighting among us.

I am working closely with .In registry since 2004 ( formation year) and I never see any person pressed them for reforms except me (I have tons of emails to prove this and if anybody require this for any purpose... please contact me), I also want to know from all members on this forum that some of you had meeted the registry officials but how many of you asked them for reforms or written them the emails for reforms or any issue faced by you? if answer is NO then just think why NO ? If answer is Yes , then please share details of your discussion ...it will really help in discussion with registry, otherwise they always say "Sanjeevji ! you are the only person who is talking about all INDRP issues but no one complaints about INDRP issues" so what to say after that ?

I have very cordial relation with almost all registry officials and meeting them or talking them on phone regularly and they takes my feedback and suggestions but actions are not coming ? Few days back legal officer called me on behalf of CEO and asked for reforms required in INDRP , I sent them details in email but till date I donot see actions, Yes ! one feedback I regularly got from them that so and so member of this forum meeted them or sent them email and complaint against me or Mitsu and I always ask officials ....did they had any discussion about how to take .In registry ahead or increasing the no. of .IN's apart from complaints ? and answers are always negative...

Essence of all this is that each and every forum members need to go to registry and ask them for need of reforms or make a single platform and ask for reforms, as today four or five main contributor members are facing INDRP process, some members are discussing in open and some of even not disclosing this .......As .IN market grows further may be tomorrow you will be the target , it will become a frequent things, prime names will become more targets ...valuations of your holding are coming down (see the herbal.in sale price- what return on investment registrant got ?) , Need of time is to do collective efforts and If we all are coming on one platform then I will also make sure that I will expose the mole among us.

I am ready to share domain name INDRP.IN if any member who want to make it as a platform to use it for vote or opinion on decisions or rating to arbitrators or like anything like that.

Sanjeev Goyal.

Again : ( purely a personal opinion in this post- no need to react whoever hurt with this post but this is a fact and fact always have evidences, we all are responsible for all this mess up of INDRP as our inaction itself makes us responsible ) If you have any more ideas please share it.



this is not the first such wrong decision and many will follow in future.. a complete reform is required.. I am serious about promoting .IN to next level , many other domainers are working day and night to promote .IN . Domainers are quite key for any extension to succeed... otherwise domainers start promoting loads of new GTLDs available .. many registries of these GTLDs want the domainers to step-in and promote and they are ready to give lots of perks in return .. In registry has not given anything for domainers in last 11 years time rather troubling domaining community all the time perhaps they have not realised they are troubling domaing community or may be they totally unaware the importance of good followers who put enoromous amounts to promote .IN .. if they really want to take .IN to next level certainly need the reforms .

Please reform INDRP , its so biased to the complainant and it cant protect genuine INDIAN Business interests either. Many of the arbitrators are totally incompetent or compromising for unknown reasons.
 

domainpundit

Active Member
Country flag
(purely a personal opinion in this post- no need to react whoever hurt with this post but this is a fact, we are all responsible for all this mess up of INDRP)

I am writing this post after my detail meeting with InderPaul and Samit Madan (Namepros) in Mumbai today, I am really hurt to know that lot of our forum members are facing hardship due to INDRP decisions and that is why I am writing this ....a bit long but needed:

I am seriously behind the .In registry since long for reforms and we are the only registrar who send them emails regularly for these cause, even today I have a long meeting (1.30PM-4.30PM) with InderPaul and Samit Madan (Namepros) in Mumbai and major part of discussion was INDRP only and how to protect domain names from these kind of cases. we are also starting TM protection services for your prime names from today itself , you can PM us if you want to TM your prime names.

But seriously saying .IN registry is not taking any issue seriously and I am as a part of registry (as registrar and technical committee member) I am taking risk by saying these words against registry although my business is depend on them but am doing it ? (I am sure some members of this forum will try to take advantage by sending this to registry). We have taken this issue with every CEO and even copy of this thread as well as other threads are sent them regularly ...Now hope .IN registry officials will see my this reaction on public forum.....

I see reason for this inactivity on part of registry may be because our own peoples and some members of this forum goes and meet the registry officials for their personal gains (to get the sponsorship for their program or to get favor to appoint their domainer friends as arbitrators or showing themselves as chairman of some fake organizations ) in this process they never discuss about betterment of .IN registry but they simply talk against some of our own members OR domainers file complaint of false whois / list of domain name holdings of other domainers just because they miss the domain names OR giving details about our own members that so and so person is active on secret whatsapp group, showing registry officials the content of whatsapp chat among group for selling and purchasing of the domain names (although I am not the member of any such group but I have copy of all chats , in which they try to involve a two small time new registrars from India also ...got from registry officials) OR which registrar is sending them list of domain names for sale on regular basis OR which registrar is planning to file case against registry OR forwarding internal emails sent to them by registrars for drop catch .....Unfortunately Registry get all these feedback from our own members on regular basis but not a single feedback on betterment of registry , whenever I get above details from registry I really think that this will not take us ahead and whatever efforts we few peoples are doing, will go in drain? We are internally fighting with our own members ....That is where registry understands that these peoples are not working collectively and we are not on one platform and till we are not coming on one platform and press for reforms then reforms are surely a difficult thing to come. There are lot of ways to press for reforms but for this, First we need to come on one platform. No need to react negatively to this post but we really need is a positive and constructive approach and ideas to tackle the situation which is getting worse day by day. This post is not given to attract sharp reactions and start fighting among us.

I am working closely with .In registry since 2004 ( formation year) and I never see any person pressed them for reforms except me (I have tons of emails to prove this and if anybody require this for any purpose... please contact me), I also want to know from all members on this forum that some of you had meeted the registry officials but how many of you asked them for reforms or written them the emails for reforms or any issue faced by you? if answer is NO then just think why NO ? If answer is Yes , then please share details of your discussion ...it will really help in discussion with registry, otherwise they always say "Sanjeevji ! you are the only person who is talking about all INDRP issues but no one complaints about INDRP issues" so what to say after that ?

I have very cordial relation with almost all registry officials and meeting them or talking them on phone regularly and they takes my feedback and suggestions but actions are not coming ? Few days back legal officer called me on behalf of CEO and asked for reforms required in INDRP , I sent them details in email but till date I donot see actions, Yes ! one feedback I regularly got from them that so and so member of this forum meeted them or sent them email and complaint against me or Mitsu and I always ask officials ....did they had any discussion about how to take .In registry ahead or increasing the no. of .IN's apart from complaints ? and answers are always negative...

Essence of all this is that each and every forum members need to go to registry and ask them for need of reforms or make a single platform and ask for reforms, as today four or five main contributor members are facing INDRP process, some members are discussing in open and some of even not disclosing this .......As .IN market grows further may be tomorrow you will be the target , it will become a frequent things, prime names will become more targets ...valuations of your holding are coming down (see the herbal.in sale price- what return on investment registrant got ?) , Need of time is to do collective efforts and If we all are coming on one platform then I will also make sure that I will expose the mole among us.

I am ready to share domain name INDRP.IN if any member who want to make it as a platform to use it for vote or opinion on decisions or rating to arbitrators or like anything like that.

Sanjeev Goyal.

Again : ( purely a personal opinion in this post- no need to react whoever hurt with this post but this is a fact and fact always have evidences, we all are responsible for all this mess up of INDRP as our inaction itself makes us responsible ) If you have any more ideas please share it.
Thank you Sanjeev ji for making a detailed post, appreciate your post. I will personally not to look into what has happened so far as it might keep the differences a live , its the time to keep all differnces a side and emerge as one strong .IN eco system.

I am quite interested to see how all the domaining community members can come together.. we can have loads of personal , professional / ideology related differences.. when comes to finding the ways how we can improve .IN growth ? , there is no better way than everyone coming together. Extension growth and extension promotion should be ahead of all other interests , all investors ,community members , businesses using .IN , registars, arbitrators , web developers , market places and including NIXI will benefit from such healthy reforms, world has changed a lot since INDRP policy has gone live , its the time to bring reforms as there is lot of technology advancement happened in last 11+ years, its totally unfair to continue with the old fashioned system, its nothing but registry hurting itself and as well as hurting .IN extension... if we cant make .IN best extension for India now and we cant make it any other time. Its the time to make a difference.

Some suggestions on the kind of improvements required are posted @
http://our.in/in-registrations-number-changed-to-2094760/
 
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